Lazar on his S-4 security clearance badge:

"It was a white badge. It has a light BLUE and a dark BLUE diagonal stripe through it. On the top it says MAJ12, but the clearance level is MAJEstic. My picture was on it."

Bob Lazar: Holy Blue Mage.

Who'da thunk it?

Following, then, is an excerpt from the book "UFOs and the Alien Presence" (1991 by Michael Lindemann ISBN 0-9630104-0-9). It is from an interview with this Holy S-4 Mage & Physicist, Bob Lazar.

• BL = Bob Lazar
• GH = Gene Huff
• ML = Michael Lindemann
• PH = An anonymous physicist
• RS = Ralph Steiner

RS: "Bob, you said you read in the document room some rather strange references to human evolution and the aliens' role in human genetics. How did that come up, in what context? What was it you saw?"

BL: "I hate to repeat this stuff. I say this every time I mention it, because I have no other proof it's true, other than the fact that I read it; and I always follow that up by saying, yes, everything I read about the propulsion system turned out to be fact. But it's really far-fetched, and even though I did work with alien technology on flying saucers, I still find it difficult to come to grips with the physical alien thing in itself. But as far as where that came from, yes, there was a book that was almost like a history of the development of the human race. It was written from a different point of view. I don't think that particular thing had a title to it. But that's where we were referred to as 'containers.' Any time the word 'human' came up, it was always replaced with the word 'containers.' Earth was referred to as Sol 3 instead of earth. It was a strangely written report."

ML: "What do you think the word 'containers' referred to?"

BL: "That referred to people. Now, containers of what, I don't know. You can speculate on that until you turn BLUE."

ML: "This book you're referring to -- are you saying this book was of alien origin?"

BL: "I'll tell you exactly how it looked. It was certainly odd, in that it was written from another point of view. It was like a history book of us, like someone had been looking at the earth and written a brief history of what had happened, and how everything living here looked, so on and so forth. If you remember the old Collier's encyclopedias, in the section on anatomy they had the clear pages that you could turn, and there's the circulatory system, the organs, and so forth. OK. This was one of the most fascinating things in the briefings, other than the information itself. As you turned the page -- it would be a picture of, for instance, an old adobe house -- and as you moved the page up, you'd see through the different levels of the house, almost like those little 3-D things you bend and see different views, but it was very smooth and clear, much higher resolution. I'd just never seen anything like that. I don't know if it actually exists anywhere, or if we're talking about something of alien origin, but as you turn the page, you can see the superstructure, and then down to the wood itself, then the foundation. There again, there were no references to people. Everything was 'containers.'"

ML: "But it was clear from the context that the word container referred to people? [BL: Right.] What kinds of things did they say about the people? Did they talk about how people behave, what the historical development was?"

BL: "What they were talking about was the desirability of containers, and that the containers were not damaged. Now, people speculate on containers. Are they talking about containers of souls, something bizarre like that; or is it the opposite? Is the container the soul, and it contains the body? That's too far out really for me to grasp, but they were talking about the preservation of the containers, and how unique they are. Extremely, extremely unique..."

GH: "That life like ours was very difficult to find."

BL: "Very difficult to find."

BL: "By the way, the book, if flipped over, is two books put together. One's upside down. This way, it's kind of the basic history of earth. You flip it over and read it the other way, and it has to do with Reticulum Four, as they called it, which dealt with the alien civilization."

ML: "So that book contained, in effect, a history of the earth from an alien perspective. Is that correct? [BL: Right.] And then, on the other hand, an alleged history and perspective on Reticulum Four, which presumably is the planet that these..."

BL: "Right, that's as stated in the book. But of course, I can't attest to the validity of the information in there. Unfortunately, when I first opened the book the way it was sitting, and was playing with the pages and the drawings in there, it was some time before I realized it had to do with a lot of the alien civilization. Maybe I could have learned a lot more there.

"Still, on top of all that, even with photographs of autopsies and aliens, that was certainly NOT what I was interested in. Yes, it's fascinating and awe-inspiring, but I really wanted hardware."

GH: "People ask Bob, do you think it was disinformation? But the information is so extensive that it just seems inconceivable that someone could have made this up."

ML: "The photographs sound rather difficult to reproduce, except by some odd technology."

BL: "Having a photo lab, that's what intrigued me and why I played with it for so long."

ML: "Had you ever seen anything like that? Are you aware of anything that can do that?"

BL: "No, it was like a Mylar-based page, and it was almost a clear section where the picture was. It changed, but it didn't change in steps, like most diffraction-grating, 3-D looking pictures do."

PH: "How do you feel, emotionally speaking, with the fairly certain knowledge that extra-terrestrial beings are out there, and they've visited the earth, and they're probably still coming around, and so on. Does it bother you at all?"

BL: "No, it's the only thing that makes sense. It takes a lot of the confusion out of things. A lot more knits together, and now things begin to make complete sense."